Firearms are a passion of mine. If you’re a regular Gibberish reader, you know this. What you may not know is that I’ve held a concealed carry permit in the Commonwealth of Virginia ever since I turned 21. Most kids buy a twelve pack or go barhopping; I bought my Glock 27 and shot five hundred rounds of ammunition instead. I took a carrying hiatus while I lived in Oregon and Maryland, but aside from that time period if you saw me in public, chances were I was armed.
I’ve learned a lot about comfortable concealed carry over the last decade-plus. There are three goals anyone with a CCH license tries to achieve: safety/protection, comfort, and concealment. The desire to safely carry a weapon for protection is obvious. If you wear a handgun (or handguns, redundancy is your friend), then comfort is a major concern. I sit for most of the day, whether it be at the office or riding in my car. The fall and winter give you some allowances on clothing and holster options, but during the summer even small-framed handguns feel like wet anvils as you sweat just standing still.
Lastly, a key part of CCH is concealment. Freaking out that table of soccer mommies at your favorite restaurant doesn’t do anyone any good. You learn very quickly to reach for things at the store with your off-hand so that your shirt doesn’t ride up and show your piece. Take your gun out before you sit down on the toilet, or risk a nice “clank” if your handgun falls onto the bathroom floor. Sure, you might be able to pack a full-framed 1911 .45 ACP if you wear a suit all day, but my standard attire has been a tshirt and shorts/jeans. Even that is easy street compared to the poor guys who have to wear business casual. Too strict to keep a shirt over a belted handgun, too lax to wear a jacket all day. All of these issues combined lead consistent-carriers like myself to smaller and smaller handguns.
So, enter the pocket guns. I have mentioned my North American Arms Guardian .32 ACP before, which has ridden in a pocket holster for a number of years. I recently wrote about some of my concerns with the handgun not discharging properly. Whether it was poor technique on behalf of other people shooting the Guardian, cheap range ammunition, or both, I wasn’t really interested in leaving a failure to chance. I also disliked the fact that my Guardian’s magazine release would disengage whenever I squatted down. I’ve been compulsively checking to see if the magazine was seated properly. I wonder how many people saw me squeeze something in my pocket and wondered what the fuck I was doing. Not very conceal-y. That might also explain why parents rush their children away from me all the time. :shrug:
I was also concerned about the caliber. .32 ACP isn’t the smallest round out there, but it’s pretty damn close. If I ever had to use the Guardian, I knew it would be a short-range, multiple-shot nightmare. I intended to use it at the same range and with the same techniques as using a knife, which basically boiled down to grabbing my assailant with one hand while pulling the trigger with the other. Given the small size of the .32 ACP bullet plus the Guardian’s tendency to misfeed (again, bad range ammo? Who knows), I started looking elsewhere.
The Kel-tec PF-9 is supposedly the thinnest 9mm automatic made. True to the hype, it’s pretty damn thin, less than one inch. It holds seven rounds in the magazine plus one in the chamber. Thanks to the polymer receiver and grip, the pistol is very lightweight. I was surprised to discover that it weighs 18.2 ounces fully loaded. The Guardian weighs 15.8 ounces, and my “big” Glock 27 weighs 27.4 ounces. While the PF-9 is heavier than the Guardian, the increased size makes it feel more balanced. It feels less heavy than the Guardian.
Personal protection pyramid: Glock 27, Kel-tec PF-9, and North American Arms Guardian from bottom to top.
The Kel-tec (left) is thinner than the Glock 27. It may not look like it, but the difference makes a huge impact on comfortable concealed carry. There’s no way I could pocket-carry the G27.
The Kel-tec (right) is close in thickness to the Guardian.
The Kel-tec is built for one thing only: deep concealment carry. It doesn’t have fancy gel grips, it doesn’t have a sweet take-down lever, it doesn’t have a decocker, or an external safety. There is no drop-in laser dot contraption for the Kel-tec. The PF-9 has cheap-o fixed sights with a little dab of high-visibility paint on for good measure. The slide lock lever doesn’t release like a typical auto, so you have to “rack” the slide to chamber a round. The mag release button is plastic but functional. The magazine is metal, but isn’t going to win any awards for design or ergonomics.
The PF-9 shoots like it looks. It’s all business. Lacking one of those “new-fangled” external safeties, the PF-9 has a really, really long trigger pull. I am sure it’s bad self-defense shooting form, but at the range I pre-loaded tension on the trigger before firing the gun. Tutorial: pull the trigger back about two-thirds, feel the trigger start to catch, and then slowly pull the trigger the rest of the way.
Recoil and report are both extreme. The Kel-tec is louder than my G27, which isn’t known for being a mouse. After my first round of shooting, I remarked that the PF-9 may be the only handgun that’s more uncomfortable to shoot than the Guardian. Trigger slap (rebound) is painful. My trigger finger hurt for two days after shooting the Kel-tec for the first time. I’ve named my PF-9 Ike in honor of such a vicious trigger slap. The last time I took it to the range, I got a blister on my palm from the PF-9’s jagged grip pattern. I am able to successfully double-tap my target at seven yards, but shooting my G27 is a dream in comparison.
I was originally pretty down on how rough the PF-9 shot until I remembered I didn’t buy it to replace my Glock, I bought it to replace my Guardian. The PF-9 is a lot more accurate, feels more comfortable in my front pocket, and packs a bigger punch than the Elf Gun. It’s okay if the sights are meh, that the trigger pull is long, and that shooting two hundred rounds in one session makes my hand hurt the next day. This isn’t a target pistol, it’s a people-pistol, and if I fire all eight shots in “real life,” it will have been a very very bad day.
I am very impressed with the form factor of the PF-9, and unlike the Guardian have yet to have a misfeed. Every time I pulled the trigger the pistol went “bang.” I’ve carried it for almost two weeks now and feel like I made the right choice. I put it in my pocket and no one is the wiser. I have two holsters for it (reviews forthcoming), and thanks to them the PF-9 is a great little backup/deep concealment carry package.
It’s hard to find the PF-9 right now, but I found it at a very small-time local gun shop for $4 under the MSRP, at $329.99. The spare mag cost me an arm and a leg ($28), but they are going for $40 and more on Gunbroker.com right now. Ike is loaded with Federal 124 grain Hydro-shok rounds, which he cycles with aplomb. If you’re looking for a good pocket gun or perhaps even a daily carry piece, take a look at the PF-9.
I’m glad you found a backup in which you feel confident that it will perform if required. You had given the Guardian a couple funny looks when Sleepy Panda and I had problems with it when you took us to the range. But it was still working reliably for you at that time. So you gave us a couple “how can you pull the trigger and NOT have it go ‘plank’?” funny looks. But you were seriously unhappy when it started giving you problems. So I’m very happy for you and your new friend!
Nice review. I hope Ike is still treating you well. I paid my money for a PF-9 a year ago…still waiting. (That’s the down side of having a friend who’s an FFL. The up side is dirt cheap prices.)
Any suggestions as to where to look for holsters for this model? Thanks for your help in this matter.
Hi James, I really like my DeSantis Nemesis pocket holster, which I purchased directly from DeSantis.
I also have a leather “slide” style holster that fits small frame automatics. I think someone local/regional made it, and I bought it when I got my PF-9. Unfortunately I don’t have any manufacturer information, but basically it can either server as a belt-mounted holster or an inside the waistband holster. It’s pretty good, although I don’t use it very often.
Try the Don Hume JIT slide for this weapon its a winner. Don hume out of Miami OK. There on the web. Agreed the Desantis Nemisis is also a great holster. I use them both on my Keltec PF-9 and P3AT.
I do not use the holster I bought a clip for the pf9 from Keltec for around 12.00 and love it. It stays where you put it and has not creeped or moved at all. I wear it at 4:00 hooked on the material of my jeans. great weapon.
The first rule of armed combat is to be armed. As a retired police officer that carries all the time, I found the PF9 perfect for those max concealment situations. The 9mm is a very respectable round. I carry the Federal Personal Protection ammo. (not permitted to carry hollow points in NJ, let’s not even go there). But in the SOB, IWB, ankle, belt or pocket, this weapon is stealth. Of course if Im doing a security or protection gig then I suit up with a .40 or .45.
Here is a tip on the PF9. Do yourself a favor and get out the dremil tool with a fine grinding bit and run it up and down those grooves on the backstrap and front of the grip. Those ridges are torture when firing this little dragon. Just hone them down nice and smooth and you will be very pleased with the results. Also, if you have a Fobus for your .45 (Kimber, etc.) the PF9 will be right at home.
Stay safe people……………….
And support the NRA, or else………………
Hi Joe P, thanks for your comment about the backstrap/grip groove. Your suggestion may go a long way towards more comfortable shooting. I could use all the help I can get after putting more rounds downrange with the PF-9! ;)
Mr. Faulken -
Thanks very much for the no BS review. In your search for deep concealment auto pistols did you look at the Kahr PM9’s? I’m currently weighing the two…. the Kahr is a fair bit shorter and a fair bit more $$$.
Thanks!
Justin
Hi Justin,
Thanks for your compliment. I had the Kahr on my short list. As you mentioned, price was a factor. The PF-9 is my backup pistol, so I was willing to be “cheap” in a few areas if that brought the firearm into a more affordable range. I was very concerned about the thickness of my pocket pistol, and as such the PF-9 was more of what I was looking for. I have not shot the Kahr PM9 but I do know someone who loves hers and it is her daily carry pistol.
The one thing I might consider now that I’ve owned the PF-9 for awhile is that the shorter length of the PM9 might come in handy if you have shallow pockets. I wear painter’s-style jeans, cargo shorts/pants, or dress pants, and all of those have really deep pockets. If you wear more a Levi’s 501 5-pocket style jeans the shorter length of the Kahr may suit you.
If I do wear pants with shallow pockets I use my inside the waistband holster. It’s not as comfortable as the Nemesis pocket holster I use, but it’s not bad for the day.
Good luck with your decision!
Thanks very much for the response!
Justin
Bought a PF-9 about two weeks ago. Your review is spot on! Great concealment gun and a nice upgrade to my KELTEC P3AT (another fantastic pocket gun, especially with the mag extender). I’m used to cycling a couple hundred rounds and was a bit surprised to find my hand shaking after a hundred rounds from the PF-9. This is not a range practice gun, but you can easily plug 15 rounds (the standard carry load with two mags) into center of mass at 10 to 15 yards, which is exactly what this gun was designed for. The only issue was a couple of misfeeds during single, weak hand fire, but that was poor shooter technique & easily corrected. Try the Uncle Mike Sidekick IWB holster (size 1). Perfect fit, zero bulk, and only $10-15. The biggest drawback to this weapon is that you will literally forget you are carrying it!
does anyone have a recommended holster for the pf-9 as well as the p3at.
Hi there, I use the DeSantis Nemesis pocket holster for daily carry. I have a locally-made leather slide IWB holster for deep concealment.
Matt recommends the Uncle Mike Sidekick IWB holster (size one).
onthefly suggests the Don Hume JIT slide.
Good luck!
Purchased my PF-9 a week ago. A very comfortable carry. With only a hundred rounds through it I’m concerned with misfeeds. I won’t discard poor shooter technique. Matt, what correction did you make that eliminated your misfeeds? Once I correct this I’m convinced I’ve a real WINNER!!
Anyone know of a reason why my PF-9 will not reliably feed Winchester 9mm 115 gr FMJ Target/Range ammo? I put another 60 rounds through it with about a 15% failure rate. Also the failures occurred when the mag had 5-7 rounds loaded. Once the first 1-3 were fired it fed ok. I’m quickly loosing confidence in this little jewel. By the way when it fires I’m getting nice 3″ groupings at 15′ so I’ld really like to make this work.
Hello Ramon,
Is that the Winchester white box? I’ve put several hundred rounds of cheap Winchester through my Kel-tec at the range (I have to buy my ammo from them), but I don’t remember if it’s 115 gr, etc.
Do you think it might be the mag spring? I’d call Kel-tec and see what they have to say.
I’m sorry I don’t have a better answer for you, maybe someone else here will.
Ramon,
With this gun, misfires are likely a result of “limp wristing” the gun. Try to concentrate on pushing the gun forward when you fire. In the firing position rotate your gun hand forward and down a little bit. You can find detailed articles on the web addressing this problem.
If it is only happening with the first couple of rounds then the gun may just need to be broken in. This may take 200-400 rounds.
If you still have the problem after break in and you are concentrating hard on technique then you should call Kel-Tec. They are very good about fixing their weapons and getting them back to you fast.
I’m just imagining you dropping the gun while going to the toliet and shooting something off… Ouch.
Welcome to Gibberish!
Modern firearms don’t work that way. There are safety devices in place that would prevent this from happening, such as the firing pin being moved away from the ammunition’s primer. Firearms just don’t “go off” like people see in the movies or television, and it’s really unfortunate that people think that they can.
The real dangers are dropping it in the toilet or just leaving a handgun on the toilet tank for someone else to find.
I just bought the PF-9 to replace the kel-tec .380 I was carrying. Haven’t fired it yet, so I won’t carry it until I do, but I was wondering about the upgrades that reportedly reduced the problems with this gun. Will the date of manufacture tell me if it’s the upgraded model? Also, the inside of the barrel doesn’t appear very smooth and shiny, even after cleaning and oiling it right out of the box. Is this normal for this model? Thanks.
I intend to purchase a PF-9 as soon as I scrape up the cash. In the meantime I bought a SmartCarry holster (see their web) for my SW9GVE. The rig rests right in front of your nuts and is not at all uncomfortable. Perfect with sweat pants or any elastic top pants, and works with jeans and trousers, just like Charlie demonstrates with photos on his web site. If someone stares at my crotch with the jeans they might think they see something, but nobody stares. Guess I’m not worth looking at. I can adjust it to fit a smaller gun with just a safety pin. I love it.
Nice carry piece. I put on the “pink grip” floor piece that came with the gun and for some reason the slide was a little tight when I chambered a round. I put the falt piece back on and it was fine. what’s up with that?
Hey, that is pretty odd. I wonder if the pinky extension kept the magazine from fitting all the way up in the well properly?
Sounds reasonable to me. In fact I bet that is exactly what it is. Thanks.
Hey guys, check out this forum for everything you want to know about the PF-9:
http://www.ktog.org/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl
I must say that I am very interested in the PF-9 due to it’s size, but I don’t understand the widespread popularity and enthusiasm for a weapon whose sole purpose is concealed carry self protection, yet has such a bad track record. Don’t you want to trust your LIFE to a reliable weapon? I don’t give a rat’s ass how good their customer service is, my point is you shouldn’t need it!
Hi OneTuza, I’ve never had an issue with my PF-9. I know early production models had a variety of issues, none of which apply to my individual handgun.
Ditto here. I have run several hundred rounds through my PF9 without a hitch. However, keep in mind that this is a mission specific weapon. Close quarters self defense. Always use a sure grip (two handed if possible), and lean into the stance, push the weapon forward. Most of the problems I am aware of involve a weak or limp shooting hand. This weapon reacts unlike its counterparts and the extreme recoil requires you to be part of a successful battery. Make your pistol grip a part of your combat mindset. But after all is said and done if you still have any question about this weapon - GET RID OF IT NOW. NEVER carry without confidence.
Stay safe…………………… Joe P
I had FTF problems initially. When problems persisted regardless of how solid my grip was I consulted my gunsmith. He polished the feed ramp (took about 60 seconds) and I haven’t had a misfeed since. Regardless of the grade of ammo I use. Just a thought!
Any advice as to why my clip won’t stay in the gun? It keeps popping out with the least amount of pressure. and will not stay in after a round has been fired. It pops out and causes it not to feed the next round correctly if at all.. I’ve tried holding the clip bottom but still no luck.
My first attempt to understand and correct the FTF I sprayed the trigger mechanism with breakfree. BIG MISTAKE! This pistol does not like lubrication. After applying the breakfree the mag would release after every shot. I thoroughly cleaned the weapon and the mag performed normally. I don’t know if this fits your situation, but it’s another consideration.
Let me add something. A flaw, as I see it, with this weapon is that the mag retainer/release is made of plastic. Now I have read some good advice and that is to not slam the mag home but hold the release button in while seating it. This will prevent it from undue wear. Of course this would not be held in a combat reload situation.
So it seems that you may have already passed the point of saving that retainer in so far as the constant failure. I would send it back to Kel-Tec for a warranty repair. You might even question if there is a replacement in metal like you can do with the guide rod, which everyone should do. It is the same metal rod replacement for the PF-11.
I bought a PF9 about one month ago and have run about 400 rounds through it and have had no problems whatsoever. I don’t find the recoil that bad, I shot 150 rounds yesterday with no problems. The accuracy is very good for a gun of this size. I recommend that you practice jam clearing techniques as is do with any semi auto.
Just picked upmy pf9 and love it. The first thing I did was polish the feed ramp ( which didn’t take much polishing…) and cleand up some minor rough spots on the frame rails. I also used emory cloth on the grip sides, backstraps and trigger guard and trigger. It took all of ten minutes and improved the feel tremendously. I’ve only fired two full clips, but they fired flawlessly. I felt the recoil was minor ( no plus p rounds) and easy to keep on target. I would love to see Keltec make a small light pistol in .45 caliber. I also own a P-32 and love it.
This is a great little CCW gun. I am a small time FFL and I am lucky to have these in stock all the time. I sell them for $280 and have 12 in now, but they sell at a rate of about 1 a day. Most of the local cops around me have purchased one for there off duty gun de to its small size. I am also quite fond of the P3AT for the summer. Even though it is a 380 ACP te gun is so Small that you will actually carry it. And as they say a 380 in the pocket is better than a 45 on the shelf.
I put the Hogue Jr. Grip Sleeve on my PF-9 and it fells great in my hands
Hey I just installed energy absorbing grip pads from http://www.ktaddons.com/ and a Hogue Handall Jr rubber grip (installed it upside down, works better for me) and then I went and tried to improve upon the imperfect blueing job from Kel-tec. Clearly I don’t know what I was doing and it wasn’t what I expected. I went thru the process three times and I still ended up with a sort of used look with a few blotchy areas. I can live with it until I can afford to Durakote it some day.
I’m waiting for an Armalaser RSS laser so I can complete a pocket holster I’ve started using a Dell computer mouse pad! When I get it done of course I’ll have to post pictures.
I’m new to all this, and at 62, my wife thinks I’m nuttier than a squirrel turd, but I got my CCP and we have 4 handguns already. Will be saving up for a SU-16 a few months down the road!
hey, im thinking of buying a pf9. ive had several kel-tec pistols in the past and loved them all. had a p3at, and a p-11. is there any drawbacks ? if not im buying one
No drawbacks in my opinion, just compromises: personally, I prefer .45 to 9mm (less tendency to over penetrate); 7 round magazine means you are definitely going to be carrying the spare; sharp recoil and is very unforgiving of limp wrist and other poor technique. On the plus side, it is so thin and light that it has replaced my Taurus PT-145 Pro as my primary carry weapon. I’m trading 21 rds of .45 for 15 rds of 9mm for the ease of carry and better concealment. Just make sure you get one of the newer serial numbers as the earlier ones did have some issues. Go to http://www.ktog.org for details. Once you get a couple hundred rounds through the gun and get to know it you’ll find it to be a reliable and fun companion.
yeah, ive heard lots of good things about it. im also looking to purchase a ruger lcp. hard to find though. anyone heard anything good or bad about them? seems no-one in the state of North Carolina can order them. i am a big kel-tec fan though.love the p3at. hard to replace it in a deep cover pocket pistol. without giving up something i mean.
I had gotten a Ruger LCP about six weeks ago, purchasing for the size and Ruger reputation. I found I had the same problem with the LCP as I did with my PF-9, FTF. With my gunsmith resolving my PF-9 FTF by polishing the feed ramp, I did the same with the LCP. Once the ramp was polished I’ve had absolutely no problem regardless of ammo quality, cheap and pricey. I’ve not fired the P3AT, but I suspect from appearance that they are very comparable. Only with the Kel-Tec being readily available and lifetime warranty. I’m very impressed with Kel-Tec’s timely response to acquiring replacement parts. As a matter of fact, they did not even charge me for a new firing pin, spring, and retainer screw. It’s the little things that keep me coming back.
Last Thursday at the range my mag started falling out just about evry other round. This caused failures to feed, jambs stovepipes and failures to reset trigger. I was dejected, but had one vacation day left, so Friday I made the close to two hour round trip to Cocoa. Great service, quick service, courteous service, even jovial service, along with helpful hints. Anyway, Flo said it was the plastic mag release. She installed a new metal mag release and put 7 mags of 4 diff, types of ammunition thru it without a problem. She gave me back my gun, no charge, and yes, it was clean as a whistle. While I still have some reservations as to it’s reliability as a defense weapon, you cannot beat their service and lifetime warranty. AND, it’s an American company!
I have just written to Kel Tec for info on getting my PF9 retro fitted with a metal mag release. There have been too many instances of failure. And I hope they switch to both the metal mag release and metal guide rod for all new pistols.
Just got an email from Kel Tec. Said that the metal mag release is still in R & D and not yet available for consumers. I guess the only way to get it now is to show up at their doorstep like Onetuza did.
Good honest review on the PF9. Lots of shooters are opting to use it due to the lack of weight and thin design. I must admit though that I purchased the Kahr PM9 over the PF9 for a number of reasons. It’s fit and finish is much better than the Kel Tec as is the trigger and shooting comfort. Realizing it is much more expensive I still feel I made the right choice for a CCW, or back up 9mm. For the money the PF9 seems like a reasonable piece, it’s just not for me though. My PM9 has yet had a FTF and carries very comfortably. It is also a reasonably comfortable pistol to shoot for its size. Dollar for dollar I think it is a better handgun in the long run. I do own a P3AT and find it to be just fine for deep concealment when clothing and weather dictates and nothing else will work. It is a punishing handgun to fire though.
Thanks again for the comments about the review and about the slide release, etc. I am glad that we’ve been able to offer differing viewpoints without sliding into a caliber war or brand battle :). Sometimes I think the CCW community is its own worst enemy, but I am glad that the people who have commented on this thread have been helpful and open minded. I thank you.
Steve, I am glad that you purchased the Kahr PM9 — based on the other people who have posted in this thread and a few people I know that own them the pistol sounds like a great choice. If I were looking for a primary carry pistol I may have passed on the PF-9, or been unhappy with its uncomfortable shooting behavior. However, since it’s my last-ditch piece and mostly likely used at arm’s-length I probably won’t notice the not-so-comfortable grips or ridiculous trigger pull.
It’s funny how spending time with one product will help you with another. My big BMW motorcycle has helped my riding skill on my smaller Yamaha bike. Owning the PF-9 has helped me with my Glock shooting. It’s funny how things work out.
Warm regards, and may we never be pressed into using the firearms we’ve commented on in this thread.