I promised Wayne at Motoport I would post his email to me in its entirety. I have only removed my first name from his email. I posted this on advrider.com’s equipment forum, but I am unsure if the post will be allowed to stay because I posted on behalf of a merchant. So I’m reposting it here. I will quote Wayne’s comments, and bold my rebuttal.
One of our customers told me about a bad write up on advrider. I went on Gringo’s thread today and your comments upset me. First you just started riding and you know very little about motorcycle apparel and riding a motorcycle. The negative statements you made reflect this lack of experience. Second the comments you made damage my company. We do our best to make customers happy. In some cases it is impossible. I don’t post on Gingo’s thread. As a manufacturer it is not allowed. Only your comments are seen. My side of this story should be seen. Please post this response on Gringo’s thread.
You placed the order on June 30. Measurements given: 6′ tall, 180lbs., chest 44″, 38″ sleeve length and a 32″ waist. This is not a standard size. Chest large with a small waist. We built the jacket to your measurements and shipped both the liner and jacket on 8/1, 32 days after placing the order. Your size is a large jacket with a small jacket size waist. Here are some of your negative comments on advrider in red with my response in green:
I was explicitly told how to take measurements on the phone. I noted in this thread that I was very concerned about taking measurements correctly and did as I was told. The chest and knee measurement exercises made me worried but I did what I was told anyway. The lady who took my order said to draw in a deep breath when taking the chest measurement. My chest measurement with inflated lungs is a 44. Given that I did as asked and the sizing was entirely too big, I gave you my relaxed chest measurement the second time. For the knees, I was to get on the bike I rode the most while wearing comfortable pants. I was to put two strips of tape on the top and bottom of my knee cap and then make my measurement from there. I did as directed.
The jacket seems to be sized too big as well. I am not sure if it is supposed to be this big in the chest — I feel like I have more than enough room to put in the liners and my chest and thorax body armor on TOP of the Motoport stuff
You gave me incorrect measurements.
I gave you the measurements you asked for to the best of my ability. It would be helpful if you had photos or a video on your Web site displaying the best way to measure for your products. There was a gentleman in this thread who said he had a problems understanding your directions also and had to phone in for clarification.
I am also aghast that the pants and jacket don’t zip together. The cheapest motorcycling gear you can find has a zipper system or a belt snap system.
If I paid a third of the cost of my suit I’d still be a little disappointed. After the cost and the wait I am really dissatisfied
If we tried to put a zipper holding a 3/4 length jacket to a pant, it would be very difficult to bend at the waist. Zippers don’t need to be put on a 3/4 length jacket. We have been making thousands of 3/4 length jackets since 1965 and not one has ever ridden up the torso in a tumble.
Wayne went over this with me on the phone, and I understand where he is coming from. I also believe his statement about no one ever having a jacket riding up that high, especially when wearing appropriate riding pants. Please note in my future posts that I did not complain about the jacket riding up as high.
I was so concerned about the knee measurement that I called twice. Given how the rest of my order turned out, it’s the least of my worries. Still, for the price and the wait I expected more.
Call any motorcycle apparel company with the original measurements you provided and see if they have anything that will fit. We build you a custom Kevlar Jacket in four weeks to the incorrect measurements provided and you complain.
The reason I chose to order from Motoport was because I knew I had a funky body type and wanted custom fitting gear and great protection. I was willing to pay a premium to get both of these things. I sent you accurate measurements according to the instructions I was given over the phone, by both you and the lady I spoke with (I apologize for not remembering her name. She was nice on the phone, as were you).
If I wind up sending the pants back too I might have them do that. However, that’s the kind of thing that should be included with the jacket as part of the cost. My Tourmaster textile set cost about $200 shipped and has a 1/2 circumference zipper. Why doesn’t my $1200 Motoport gear?
Your Tourmaster is a Polyester Jacket that has no abrasion and very little tear strength. The Tourmaster is made in China, with material and labor cost for about $28.00. Add all the margins and when on sale the Tourmaster will cost $200.00. One yard of our Kevlar Mesh is currently $72.00. One yard of our Stretch Kevlar is $82.00. It takes 2.7 to 3.2 yards to make a jacket. Crash at 10mph, throw the Tourmaster jacket in the trash and pray that no injuries will occur.
I am not sure what the point is here — I am not saying that a Tourmaster jacket is as crash worthy as the Motoport gear. I appreciate the information about the cost of your raw materials, but this does not address my complaint, which was the lack of a 1/2 circumference zipper.
I talked with Motoport today and the lady on the phone was VERY nice. I expressed my concerns about the jacket fit. She told me they had a 44 chest size on file, which is what I sent them. I measured myself last night after trying on the jacket and found my actual measurement to be a 43. I told her that my Teknic leather jacket is a 44 and fits a bit snug in the shoulders (I have an ape’s arms and back) and couldn’t understand how the difference between a 43 and a 44 would equate to five inches of gathered material in the chest.
Now you told us that your chest is a 42. This makes the chest size go from a large to a medium.
As stated earlier in the thread, my at-inhalation measurement is a 44. This was what I was told to do over the phone to get the measurement you wanted. Also, for the completeness, the jacket you sent me the third time is a small, not a medium.
I’m not going to talk about the pants right now, but the short story is they still screwed up the armor placement on the knee. I have no idea why they can’t just follow the same guidelines other manufacturers do; I have three other pairs of cycling pants and the knees fit me fine.
We placed the knee armor again to your specifications.
When I spoke with you on the phone you told me to put my mesh pants on, sit on the bike I rode the most frequently, and mark the knees in a plus pattern with tape. I did exactly what you asked, and the pants came back to me with the armor too low.
The jacket is smaller than the last one (the downsized me from an L to a M), but I am concerned it still doesn’t fit right. It certainly doesn’t feel “custom,” but I’ve given up on getting a true custom fit from Cycleport. They do alteration work, not custom work.
You returned the size large to us on 9/9. We rushed your new jacket and shipped it out on 9/16. We built a small jacket because of what you told me and how the size large was clamped. We didn’t send you a medium. Now your complaining that the small is too large. Please explain how we make gear for any rider any size without making custom apparel. I had 4 riders last month that were more than 7′ tall. Last month we made a jacket and pant for a rider that was 6’4″tall and weighed 550lbs.. It fit him perfectly the first time.
Please correct me if I am wrong, but your system seems to build a jacket from sleeve and body components. You then assemble the jacket from these larger grain pieces and then alter the suit further for a more tailored fit. The jacket is not made from scratch based off of the measurements provided by the customer. I would consider this truly “custom.” I believe you use the customer measurements as a guideline by which an existing set of product components are altered. If I am wrong, I will apologize. I am not faulting you either way — again, I grew up in a small family business and appreciate the need for efficiency. I am trying to explain what I meant.
It took five weeks for the first round to show up. It took another three weeks to get the alterations made.
Why don’t you explain that you live in VA and that the shipping each way is usually 7 days?
Although it’s been evident in my user data (on the left <---) that I am in VA, for the record I live in Virginia. I sent my suit back to you the first time and it arrived in three business days.
2) Nothing fits right. I call Wayne and ask for a refund. He asks me to send my order back to him for alterations. Despite my better judgment, I give him the benefit of the doubt. I return the jacket, the jacket liner, the pants, and the gloves at my expense.
It was your decision to try again.
Yes, my complaint is that by sending the jacket back to you I surrendered my right for a refund. I think that is unfair.
4) I am charged a fee for altering the location of the knee armor on my pants.
When we make a pant to your measurements and you provide improper measurements we charge 50% of the normal alteration fees. This was explained and is on the invoice.
I provided measurements to the best of my ability as directed by you and your staff. Customers that come to you in person get fit very well, but I don’t have the capability of doing that.
5) Three weeks after sending them back, I get my jacket and pants back. The knee armor is still off, by about two inches. I marked a huge X in tape on the center of each knee cap, based on Cycleport’s advice. I wind up putting aftermarket CE armor inside the pants via double-sided hook and loop tape atop the Tri-Armor. I call Wayne again and tell him I want to return the jacket for a refund. Again, he talks me out of it, saying that if I use binder clips they can make the jacket fit me properly. I relent, partially thinking of my father’s own small business, and how hard he had to fight to keep his head above water. I send my jacket and liner back, again at my expense.
Knee/Shin armor was again placed where instructed.
Already addressed as above, I made my measurements according to Motoport’s directions.
6) Three more weeks pass, and I get my jacket yesterday. The jacket fits better across my broad back, but there is still too much fabric in the chest and along the bottom of the jacket. I have to cinch the jacket in so much that the fabric blouses out about two inches in the chest and hem. Adjusting the hem to fit properly causes the hand pockets to permanently stay open. The alterations to the body of the jacket has now made my sleeves, which fit fine before, too short. The neck no longer buttons as it used to, either. The body of the original jacket was labeled a Large, the current jacket is listed as a Small. I call Wayne and ask for a refund for the jacket.
If the small jacket is still too large in the chest area your actual chest size must be 39 to 40″ at the most. Please post the photos you sent to me today on advrider and see the response. This jacket, wearing nothing underneath is not big on you. If you want it smaller we can do that, but it will be snug when layering for cold weather.
I posted one of the photos in this thread. I have many more images on my blog; unfortunately I can only post one picture at a time via the attachment functionality on the board. My image host uses a weird file path that the forum software does not process.
My jacket is now considered “custom” because it has been altered, and as such is not covered by their satisfaction guarantee. I feel like I allowed myself to be tricked into violating their policy when Wayne asked me send in the jacket the first time.
This is explained again in bold on our invoice. I also told you that if you hadn’t worn the jacket making it used we would have taken it back?
I buy a lot of things online, including apparel and motorcycle safety gear. I have never had a problem returning anything I have purchased. I know that some people abuse the system and trash a product and send it back to you. I have been very conscious of not doing this for your product, or the product of any other vendor.
Wayne mentioned he has taken back a vast sum of money in mis-sized product due to people not measuring right.
The size large jacket returned is not standard. This jacket will be in stock for a long time. After 4 years it will be cut up. This entire issue is due to your improper measurements. As of today we have spent money trying to make a jacket fit from your improper measurements.
I have been concerned that the amount of time and/or materials spent on altering my jacket would have incurred a loss on your business. For that I apologize, but I have sent you my measurements to the best of my ability based on Motoport’s instructions.
I hope the rest of you have a good experience with Motoport. I really like the pants and wear them every time I commute into work. However, for those of you considering ordering from Wayne, consider that there is a point from which there is no return. This will not be communicated to you in any fashion until it is too late, and you may nice-guy yourself into a $650 jacket that you don’t like and doesn’t fit you well.
If you are actually a doctor I would be very concerned about the work you perform. Have you ever used a tape measure? Didn’t you see in bold writing on both invoices sent: “Custom items are non returnable.”? Do you expect to wear anything for hours and then return it for a refund? Do you know of any motorcycle apparel company that will make you custom apparel and then take it back? Go back and look at some of the other photos of riders wearing our gear. Your fit is not that bad when wearing nothing underneath for a new Mesh Kevlar Jacket that has not broken in. If you get in a riding position, not stretching the arms out as far as possible, then pull the wrinkles out of the sleeve the length might be better. This jacket is not made to snug up both the Velcro adjust under the chest and bottom hem, tight, when new and stiff with no wrinkles appearing.
If I had 3 customers a year like you, I would get out of this business.
President Motoport/Cycleport USA
Aside from the personal comments made in this email, Wayne and his staff have been very professional and patient. I still think their products are very good, and intend to keep wearing the pants. As the temperates dip and I can wear the pair of liners and my Knox Sport Shirt armor the jacket may fill out appropriately.
One thing neither Wayne nor myself discussed was the use of a clothes dryer to soften the mesh. I have put the jacket and four shoes in my dryer with no heat, per Motoports suggestion. I have done this twice, once before sending back the medium sized body, and once after receiving my current jacket in a small. The first time I ran the dryer for an hour, the second time for two hours, per Wayne’s suggestion.
I find it unfortunate that Wayne would not accept my jacket return. I understand he has a business to run, but I have not abused his product and am not trying to take advantage of the system. I also wish that this opportunity would be used to improve the manner in which measurements are communicated. As noted earlier in this thread, my friend also ordered from Wayne and received a mis-sized jacket. Fortunately Wayne worked with her and she sent him the jacket with binder clips attached. Motoport was able to alter the jacket to her body and she wears it every time she rides.
I guess that’s all I have to say. I am glad Wayne wrote to me, and hope that he feels that his side of the story is now part of this thread.